avadhuta says

When you cite difference between becoming God and existing God

avadhuta says:

In First case person keeps doership in his hands till he gets into God

avadhuta says:

constantly discriminating ?

avadhuta says:

and in other case devote just exist as mother appears in Him ?

avadhuta says:

devotee

bindu says:

if i understand you correctly.. then yes.

bindu says:

for example

bindu says:

If you God (remember you are not manoo. manoo doesn't exist) keep saying i am manoo

or refering to the body as yourself Mr God.. then you must obey your own law and become manoo ..

 

Mr God if you say you are manoo , you become him.

avadhuta says:

You mean when a person says 'I am God' he is referring to something by keeping reference to him ?

bindu says:

no, i am not saying that yet.

bindu says:

i am saying that when the voice inside him says I am manoo...... It is god saying he is manoo.

Because the voice that arises within manooo arises from out of nowhere and appears as the

mind or thought etc....

avadhuta says:

Yes

bindu says:

so then when he says i am manoo he (God must obey his own law)

so then, that voice is the speaker called god,  it is not manoo

bindu says:

so, we meditate to make the voice believe he is Siva. by Siv-om or Soham or hamsa etc...

avadhuta says:

mmmm

bindu says:

so we amass a huge understanding by jnana of the nature of god yes?

by the sheer weight of the argument for the truth of the being of the omnipresent

the mind is gradually transformed until it disappears into nothingness

that nothingness is the absolute.

avadhuta says:

Thanks

avadhuta says:

I was concerned about to how do we transcend what Shakara advaita says ..does he not say the same ?

bindu says:

no, because advaita relies on the presence of the consciousness as god or as the whole of existence...

while the Trika system goes into the fact that the consciousness is what the awareness of the one who is conscious is conscious of.

 

Even if we say the Consciousness is self-shining as the whole of existence.

Trika goes to the situation where the consciousness has not yet arisen as the light

called consciousness. it is merely conscious without the consciousness/light.

 

Thus it is infinite and is truly independent of even the consciousness itself

for example the consciousness is the consciousness which belongs to god

while the conscious One is God himself. So it is to merge into the very godhood

beyond existence.

avadhuta says:

You mean to say Advaita of Shankara goes upto the leap of Iswara ?

bindu says:

Yes, so the conscious has consciousness but it is not the consciousness

 

avadhuta says:

mm

bindu says:

Consciousness is the first attribute or possession of Iswara which makes him exist

remove consciousness and he is not separated from his absolute infinity.

 

Iswara comes into being because the consciousness comes for example:

Siva and shakti are co-dependant remove one and the other is no more.

 

I.e. If we were to remove the void in which the Cosmos spins then the void/space

would not be limited by the existence of the cosmos so it would then be an infinite

void or Brahman, not merely an empty space where the Cosmos once was.
Remember the Cosmos is the whole of existence (everything existent is inside it

along with every space which each single object occupies).

Space merges into space which by its nature is infinite.

avadhuta says:

mm

bindu says:

Ramakrishna said: “oh Kali please do not take me into yourself

as if you do, you too will disappear and who will worship you?”

 

If we now think of it in terms of science; if we were to remove all that exists

what would happen to the space in which all things are and which is also in

between the atoms? it would revert to infinite space.

avadhuta says:

Yes

bindu says:

i.e bhairava

avadhuta says:

awareness before consciousness of self you mean ?

bindu says:

no there is no self it is an infinite self who has no form, so it is awareness of awareness.

Listen very carefully; Iswara or God, comes into being only at the time that the consciousness does

previously he is merged in himself and cannot be found at all so his form or name or designation is gone

avadhuta says:

There is only one and that one is zero

avadhuta says:

?

bindu says:

yes.... NON, neti neti,, HE IS NOT, yet is. Now then this next bit is utterly stupendous.

 

In himself there is the unstruck sound called OM.. this OM is produced by the potency of 

infinite emptiness (it is potent because it has the potential to be/contain everything .......

it contains the non-existence of everything... which of course is the negative of existence.........)

so then this tension causes the existence of vibration, the vibration reflects (cause and effect) off itself

this transmutes into countless refractions and you can see that the single first photon (bindu)

creates itself again by reflection, then light comes; because of the reflection, this is the birth of consciousness.

 

So then, this light shines in the absolute as unformed consciousness duality has arrived,

because there is Void and Light -- shining and awareness of it.

 

Bhairava takes on form as black space/void in which the light/cosmos manifests

light is shakti/Bhairavi; the dance begins and the reflections spin out into the void

and all the uncountable trillions of permutations of the first come into being and

continue to grow more and more complex as time goes on....... Time is born from the vibration.

 

Yet the consciousness does not exist until Iswara says I am.. when he says I am

he grows a form which is the space in which the Atman is.

 

avadhuta says:

May I put it into my words .....Shankara Advaita says Give up time to go into Timeless and

Trika says you are already there where time and timeless as not yet separated ? am I right ?

 

bindu says:

Yes that is right, yes. so then we are talking of ichaa-jnana, not simple jnana

avadhuta says:

mm okay

bindu says:

Now when He says I am, He becomes whatever He says..........

avadhuta says:

so shakti has a lot to do with it.?

Yes. So the decent of his grace to the sadhu is reliant on his decision, if the sadhu realizes he is god,

that is not enough; nor is it enough to realize that the whole is nothing other than consciousness;

 that god must realize who he is before he creates the consciousness this is the goal of Trika.

 

Manoo, You said>>>

“Trika says you are already there where time and timeless as not yet separated ?”

 

So then the trick is to decide as the absolute who dwells beyond time, that you are not manoo.

It is to decide that you are the infinite and it is to say honestly that you are God.....

If you do not have the honesty to accept it, it will not be true...

 

avadhuta says:

mm

bindu says:

Here is karma. Dear God, karma is the device you use to pretend you are manoo or anyone else

because the world runs on karma; after all the law of  cause and effect is incontrovertible  is it not?

So then when you say you are manoo it is the truth. You must obey your own law.

 

Dear God, when you say in yourself I am God so it is, but manoo cannot say he is god, only you can.

 

Dear God to give yourself freedom or moksa you have to give it to yourself before time exists

this means you must fore-give it (give it before time arrives) how?

 

Ask who is the imaginer? Ask who is the speaker? Ask who is the hearer?

Ask who is conscious of the consciousness? Ask who is conscious.

 

When you realize that you are God only then can you say I am God, not manoo.

 

To realize that you are god, you must give yourself permission, you must forgive everything

that exists. i.e you must accept or merge everything into your  omnipresent self and see that “THAT” is yourself.

 

Fore-giveness is acceptance, acceptance is grace. Denial of your own godhood is what causes karma

i.e denial of anything as a part of god (of yourself) constitutes denial of your self does it not?

 

So then to fore-give (to cease applying karma to the jiva, which makes it stay in existence as a separate being),

you must accept who you are and what the cosmos is --- the cosmos is the consciousness, it is yours it is not you,

(just as the body is said to be manoos it is not him). You are conscious of consciousness you see.

 

So then once you do that, then you can say i am not manoo. yet while manoo has one speck of denial of godhood he will be manoo you see?

avadhuta says:

Yes

bindu says:

One begets the whole, one NUMBER means all number, and so on.

 

Now then, to understand that all is space - light/matter ie it all exists in space like a ball suspended

in an absolute NULL. We can see that the space in which the ball exists only has limitation because

the ball is in it, remove the ball and space collapses back into infinity yes?

Smash the jar and the space enters all space.

avadhuta says:

Yes

bindu says:

So this is how the Bhairava, Siva, and Iswara works as well.

 

The black God is the space, this is the ego, The cosmos is Bhairavi,

The cosmos is Atman the space is Iswara - when the Atman is no more

the space is merged beyond Time.

 

Now then when you add a ball to the infinite you of course cause uncountable

numbers of effects yes? which radiate in all directions both inward and outward

thus the universe expands in a multidimensional direction all at once, this is the big bang.

All arising from the bindu.

 

So then these directions are infinite in number due to the multiplicity of angles of effect of mass/light in motion,

it is like an imploding nuclear bomb, this creates the cosmos instantaneously. Yet the absolute is outside of this...

because both the Iswara and the Atman exist in him, do you see who this is?

avadhuta says:

Yes Its Absolute Union Of Time And Timeless before they separate out as distinct.

 

bindu says:

Yes, this is called the consciousness of Bhairava, it is Sri-Tripura in herself.

bindu says:

so then the i that which speaks is “That” ............ here is no man.

bindu says:

yet to say i am manoo or steven or anyone or anything else is to create the Iswara

God is his own creator you see, he is self caused Om.

avadhuta says:

 mm

bindu says:

Now you must share this with your friend who said i am not....

and send it to hari and Tyrone or whoever else you think will understand it

i want to make it known who i am from now on.

He has made it known in the man called Steven,

that is why Steven will be called bindu. so then he says Steven must give it --

it is time

avadhuta says:

i will